Episode 41 | Host: Trev Warnke | Guest: Justin McKinney

🔥 Why This Episode Matters

Most people think pain is the problem.

Justin McKinney believes pain is often just the signal.

In this conversation, Justin shares why so many people spend years chasing treatments that never fully solve the issue. Instead of focusing only on where pain shows up, he explains how deeper problems involving the nervous system, organs, movement patterns, and overall health can often be driving the symptoms.

For entrepreneurs, this matters because your body is one of your greatest business assets. When pain limits your energy, movement, focus, or quality of life, it impacts far more than your physical health.

This episode is a reminder that ownership doesn't stop at your business. It extends to your body, your habits, and your willingness to address problems before they become bigger ones.

🎧 Listen to the Episode

👤 Meet the Host & Guest

• Trev Warnke — Instagram | Facebook | LinkedIn | Profile

  Trev Warnke is an entrepreneur, coach, and co-founder of Brotherhood Beyond Business. Through the Brotherhood community, Trev works with male entrepreneurs who want to build strong businesses without sacrificing their health, faith, or family.

• Justin McKinney — Profile | Instagram

  Justin McKinney is a physical therapist with nearly three decades of experience helping people overcome chronic pain, movement limitations, and performance challenges. His work extends far beyond traditional physical therapy, combining advanced treatment techniques that help clients identify and address the root causes of pain rather than simply managing symptoms.

• McKinney Physical Therapy — Website | Facebook

  McKinney Physical Therapy serves clients throughout Prescott, Arizona and surrounding communities with a whole-body approach to rehabilitation, recovery, and performance. The practice specializes in chronic pain treatment, visceral manipulation, dry needling, athletic performance optimization, men's pelvic health, and nervous system-focused care designed to help clients return to the activities they love.

📌 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why pain is often not the actual problem

• The hidden role the nervous system plays in recovery

• Why traditional treatments sometimes fail to create lasting results

• How movement patterns can create chronic dysfunction

• What visceral manipulation is and how it works

• Why men often avoid addressing health issues until they become serious

• How entrepreneurs can proactively protect their long-term health

• The connection between physical health, performance, and quality of life

🧩 Episode Summary

Justin McKinney has spent nearly thirty years helping people solve problems that many practitioners overlook. In this conversation, he explains why successful treatment often requires looking beyond symptoms and understanding how the entire body works together.

The discussion explores topics ranging from chronic pain and athletic performance to nervous system regulation and men's pelvic health. Justin shares examples from his practice that illustrate how hidden dysfunctions can show up in surprising ways and why simply treating the area that hurts is often not enough.

Beyond physical therapy, the conversation also touches on service, faith, purpose, and helping people improve their quality of life. Justin's approach reflects a commitment to solving deeper problems rather than offering temporary solutions.

Like many Brotherhood Beyond Business conversations, this episode centers on ownership. Whether in business, health, or life, long-term success requires addressing root causes instead of chasing symptoms.

🕒 Episode Timestamps

[00:00] Introduction to Justin McKinney

[02:30] Why traditional physical therapy often falls short

[08:15] Discovering root causes through visceral manipulation

[18:45] Understanding the nervous system's role in pain

[28:20] Looking beyond symptoms to find real solutions

[37:45] Working with athletes and active adults

[40:55] Men's pelvic health and common misconceptions

[50:15] Why people wait too long to address health issues

[58:00] Faith, service, and mission work

[01:05:30] Future plans and serving others

[01:11:00] How to work with Justin

💡 Quote Highlight

“I'll look at you through a whole bunch of different lenses and try to get to the root cause of why you hurt.”

🚀 Next Steps

👉 Download our Your Circle is Your Ceiling eBook

👉 Learn more about Our Method

📚 Resources & Links

• Follow BBB on: Website | Instagram | YouTube | X | Facebook | Buzzsprout Podcasts

• Watch the full episode on YouTube

• Want to listen to future episodes: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout

🚀Full Transcript

Trev Warnke (00:27)

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Brotherhood Beyond Business Podcast. I'm here with Justin McKinney of McKinney Physical Therapy. We're gonna walk through his life, understand his business, and kind of see what his legacy is like here in the Prescott area. Justin, you can go ahead and tell me a little bit about yourself, why you're in the Prescott area and talk about your business too.

Justin McKinney (00:41)

Sure. yeah. So when I was preparing for this, you know, looking at the all the factors that led me to land and prescribed. It was it was pretty amazing. my wife and I are pretty much out of the box people, you know. We we have a a different lifestyle and how our careers developed from the the typical normal. And it it's it's the story of

why Prescott is, you know, what we call home now. And and it the journey started off. We were out of school. We worked at a hospital outpatient physical therapy clinic. And we started noticing some frustrations there, you know, about the the system in place and how you know as a as a physical therapist, you're you're trained in the muscle skeletal model. And

You see things in muscle skeletal lenses. So, you know, for example, a physical therapist, if you ask them, you know, okay, what do you see when you look at this body? They'll say, Well, you know, muscles, tendons, ligaments, joints, bones, and that's about it. so, you know, we s we started to feel the frustrations at at our first job, and then we we started for the next 13 years traveling all around the the country. And in that time we also got to work and do

overseas like medical mission work. And we kept seeing these these same flaws of the the muscoskeletal system. And you could get somebody better, you know, and maybe it would be in in your opinion like 50% better. Like, yeah, I'm having half the amount of back pain that I was previously. But, you know, and then there was always the but. And you were kind of thinking to yourself, okay, there's there's something wrong with this, right? There's there's just got to be something more

and the whole time that you're you're feeling this and you're you're kind of seeing this, you also see how the the systems are set up in place, like the the healthcare systems to reinforce the muscle skeletal model, you know. So you know, for example, what what is valuable in the in the healthcare system that you see a lot of people, right? So, you know, it's not that you get superb results, you know, it's

that you you made the company money, you you know, you're you're efficient, you you see a high amount of of clients in a short amount of time. so you know seeing all that happen it it just just really kind of just rubbed us and and we just we knew there was something wrong and in in the process of being all over the country and in you know and different places in the world

you you started to see these these outliers, right? So these these weird practitioners. you know I remember one time we were walking through a a clinic for orientation in in Oregon and they're like okay this is where you know these you know our our practitioners practice and and you saw these toilet plungers and you're like what's going on with the toilet plungers.

And they're like, that's that's for myofascial release. And you know, like, what you know, yeah, they'll they'll they'll put toilet plungers on clients and you know, some of the practitioners like had decorated the handles of the toilet plungers and painted it and you know, it made it really pretty and you're like, This is so odd, you know. And and then, you know, someplace else, you know, I I met a guy and you know, it was just like

This is this weirdo guy and like why is this guy so weird? And he's like, because he does this crazy thing called craniosacral and and you know, like all the all the clients wanted to see this guy and there was something different about him and he was just had a different approach and you you're sitting down and you're just like, Man, what what are you doing? You know, what what what are you doing? And he's just like, Wow, I'm you know, I'm doing craniocral, what's that all about? And that's you know, where you're you know, moving the central nervous system and and you're just like, What? What what what is going on? you know and

And it and it started to just really just rock your world and you're like, wait a second, there's there's more to the body than muscle skeletal. and and you know, and at each each stage is as we're kind of developing our careers and you know, and working hard and you know, developing just a just a really high, highly skilled manual skill set. So that's that's one thing I I really started to

just trend towards is just working with my hands, you know, really putting my hands on a client and and doing a good job. So I I was working on getting my manual certification and and the manual certification was is of the osteopathic pathway, which is, you know, joint manipulations, muscle energy, myofascial release, you know, all those things that you look at and you say, okay, if I went to a DO, osteopathic, you know, clinic, whatever, you know,

So these are the things that I'm I'm building my my my skill set, my repertoire with. But you know, these these outlier people are you know are like, okay, there's something going on, there's something going on, there's something going on. And at the at the heart of everything is you want to do the best that you can do for a client, right? You don't want to sell them short, you don't want to get them 50% better, you wanna get them 100% better. And and you're just like, okay.

I have to learn these other things. So as you start to talk to these people, they start they start making you look outside of the muscle skeletal lens and you're like, central nervous system, what's that all about? Let's let's explore that, you know? And and and the cool part is, you know, on my journey, like people were just very willing to share their knowledge base with me, like, I'll show you how to do that, you know. And there was times where we were just doing just some really crazy outlandish treatments in at the time.

but it really it just really expanded my viewpoint of the of the human body. And what we started realizing is, okay, not only is the muscle skeletal lens coming up short, but the whole model of, you know, see patients, put them out, you know, like you know, we we kind of make jokes in the in the physical therapy community, we call them patient mills, right? So

You know, or high price gym memberships. You get a bunch of you know gym equipment and you put a bunch of clients on there and you charge them and you know off to go and everybody kind of gets through the the whole routine. And we're saying, and our, you know, my wife and I are just like, you know, this this isn't this isn't really fostering the things that we want. And what the things we want is we want to really explore these other avenues of of treatment. We want to look at all these ways of looking at the body.

And and that's kind of where you know Prescott started coming in. So there's a a practitioner in town, her name's Ruth Backway, and she started backways physical therapy and backways physical therapy the whole concept was just radically different at the time. Like, you know, maybe nowadays it's not that different, but at the time there was there was nothing like it.

And it was it was a collection of independent contractors, right? So you go to this clinic and as a practitioner, and the front office staff is there to schedule, do your billing, but you are your own business at that point. You have the freedom to set your own schedule, you know, take as much time off as you want. So with the traditional way of working, especially in the employee.

model, right? Like I work for a big corporation. Well the big corporation says you have two weeks of the year and in that two weeks time you have to, you know, take your vacation, get all your continuing education for the year. you know, all all the things, yeah, and if you get sick, well that goes that two weeks time too. So you know, by the time you funnel it down, you're like, holy cow, like I want to go to a four day, you know, class and learn this really cool technique. Well that's, you know, so much of my time off that

you know, I'm either gonna tell my my spouse like, hey honey, we don't we don't have time to go on a vacation this year because I I used it up on continuing education. So that model didn't work. And that model just produces the patient mills. And we just like, man, we you know we we we can't live in this because it it's just gonna kill us in the end. You know, we that's not why we got into this profession. We got into this profession to help people to

Just really, you know, do a service to the community, you know, and just really help somebody really love their life and do things they really wanted to do. So, you know, when I started talking to Ruth and she's like, Yeah, this is this is this is my model, we're like, my gosh, that's this is fantastic. Like, I don't I don't know of any place like this. And, you know, and what she was promoting was a quality practitioner, you know, if you want to go and you wanna learn this crazy thing over here.

You can do whatever you want because you're you're your own business and we support that and we're here and we'll, you know, you know, provide the mo most of the logistics behind it. So, so the draw coming into Prescott was truly to work with Ruth at backways physical therapy and bring our business there. And since we got into town and started working under that model, it allowed me to start going and really expanding my

my continuing education. And I started getting into this this particular type of treatment called visceral manipulation. And visceral manipulation was just a complete game changer in in my career. You know, so Ruth, you know, practiced visceral and she would kind of, you know, take me under a wing and show me all this stuff. And and I started going to these classes and and basically

Visceral manipulation is working with the organs of the body. And you know, like, how does that work with pain? And you know, how's that working with clients? And and I remember the first class, you know, they were saying, you know, John Pierre Garal, who's the guy who came up with this visceral program, was saying that 80% of muscle skeletal pain originates with problems with the viscera. And I was just thinking to myself, come on, man.

Trev Warnke (11:11)

Eighty percent?

Justin McKinney (11:13)

Like I mean, you know, I I I let's let's just back it up. Like maybe this guy is completely full of himself, thinks his stuff is is is just the beesne's, right? Maybe he doubled it, right? So let's say it's 40%. And then I was thinking, even if it was 40%, right? Am I willing as a clinician, you know, a practitioner, to leave on the table forty percent of the solution.

Right, and only have 60% of the results. And if this guy is really truly correct, where 80% is coming from the viscera, that means I'm only having a 20% effectivency rate with working with my clients if I'm not addressing the viscera. So it, you know, really quickly was just, you know, kind of shook my whole world. Like, you know, once again, how does this for play in that? You know, if you look at the abdomen.

You know, to a physical therapist, they're like, Yeah, you have your rectus abdominis, you got your obliques, you got your transverse abdominis. Okay, what else is in there? I don't know. That that's it. You know, it's like it's like there's organs in there. And yeah, I remember what you know, one of my very first client experiences after going to my very first visceral class, and it was a gal and and and she was like, I have shoulder pain. And I'm like, Okay, when when do you get shoulder pain? And she's like, When I do jumping jacks.

And at the time, this is you know 2014. I'm like, is jumping jack still a thing? Like, I thought that went away in the eighties and nineties, you know. And no, I do jumping jacks. Okay, well, do some jumping jacks. So she did, you know, did some jumping jacks on do you have shoulder pain? Yeah, I have shoulder pain. Okay. So I looked at her with the traditional muscle skeletal model of, you know, okay, let me do an orthopedic evaluation on you. And literally I was like, I can find nothing wrong.

with your shoulder. Like I know, like I can't find a muscle skeletal answer for you having shoulder pain. I said, if you're okay, I would like to take a look at you this this different way. And I said, it's visceral, you know, it's about organs and blah blah. She's okay, I don't care, whatever, you guys as long as I feel better. I don't care what you do. Right. And so I I did that and I'm like, huh, no, that's interesting. And and with the visceral process, the you do the thing and it's it's called listening. Even though you

don't hear anything, right? You just, you know, you have somebody standing there and you you put your hand lightly on top of their body and you just load into the body. And the crazy thing is you can actually feel where the body is pulling into. So in a clean system, you put your hand on top of your the body, you feel like the the feet interacting with the the floor. And it's very, very light pressure. So it's not like it's not even five pounds of pressure that you're putting on there.

So number one, you're learning how to interact with the body in a whole new level, right? Like this is nonverbal, right? This isn't somebody that's coming in and saying, Hey, my liver is restricted. You put your hand on and it's like pulls over to the liver and you're like, hmm, that's interesting. That's where the liver lives. You know, let's check that out. So, you know, for her, I I did that and I'm like, sure enough, loads into her liver area. So I worked on the liver in

Got that freed up and then I checked it again and then it pulled kind of into her stomach area. So I'm like, okay, well, let me go over to the stomach area and started working on that. And I'm like, okay, you know, I I did it, you know, feels pretty good now on when I when I listen to the body. let's try it out. I'm like, you know, can you do some jumping jacks? She's like, sure. So she did like, you know, a couple jumping jacks. I'm like, Do you have any shoulder pain? She's like, nope. I'm like, can you do, you know, 10 jumping jacks? So she did 10 jumping jacks. Do you have any shoulder pain? Nope.

Okay, how about you just keep doing jumping jacks for a minute? Okay, so go ahead, you know. And I had her do jumping jacks non-stop for an entire minute. I said, Do you have any shoulder pain whatsoever? She's like, I don't have any shoulder pain. And I was like, This is this is crazy. Okay. I'm like, here, let's do this. I'll call you in a week. And if you have no more problems with your shoulders, I'm like, I'll discharge you at that point. She's like, okay. So I called her in a week. I said, How's the shoulder doing? She's like, It's great. I haven't had a problem since I saw you, and I'm like,

Okay, well, off you go. I'll see you later. You know, and that whole first experience just like completely changed everything because I was, you know, once again, growing up under the you know, muscle skeletal model, you're just like, you know, so frustrated. And now you have this other tool now, and you're just like, my gosh, could you imagine if I had that way back then? You know, you start going through all these scenarios of your head and you're just like.

Okay, this is a whole new world. This just opened opened up for me. So over the next few years, I like took all the visceral classes. I took neuro classes, so working with the central nervous system and peripheral nervous systems. I took the vascular classes, so working with blood vessels, and you know, and pretty soon it just like, you know, you start looking at this body, and no longer do you see.

erectus abdominis or you know obliques and transverse abdominis, you see, okay, well that's that's the small intestine, that's like the you know, mesenteric root, there's the gallbladder, there's the liver. You know, so you you know, you're in this whole time this this whole shift is happening to you in in your career and as you're working with people, you know, number one, you know, like when we were overseas doing medical mission work, you know, you would

You'd wake up, you eat breakfast, and you get ready to go to your little PT clinic in this, in this hut, you know, in a remote village of Fiji or of Ewatu, and you got a line of 60 people waiting to see you. And you're like, holy cow, like on my best day working under, you know, the traditional model of, you know, being super efficient and working for the man and pumping numbers, like maybe I saw, I don't know.

20 people on my best day, and I got 60 people in line, you know, and and you're just like, not only that, I don't speak Fijian, you know, I don't speak Me Ban, you know, and so it was it was just amazing to start to see like there is a way that you can actually communicate with this body and it can be nonverbal. Like you don't even have to tell me what's wrong with you, you know, because I'm

don't even speak your language, like literally I can put my hand on your body and your body can be like, hey, I need your help over here. so it was just just a a really really wild ride, you know, to to see that whole expanse open up in just different ways. And and as we've been here and and and serving Prescott, you know, certain things happened, you know, and COVID happened.

And COVID was just, you know, an absolute ripple effect of just, you know, the world will never be the same, you know, because COVID happened. But in that time, my wife actually had a really bad reaction to the COVID g the vaccination. And she she started having what we now know and realize was vagus nerve problems. And it just I mean, it she would have like

horrendous like stomach pains and she would have like gastroesophageal reflex, a heartburn and you know, just like all these weird things. Our heart would just start beating like crazy and and we're like, what the heck is going on? And and and like I said, once again, going back to, you know, how we live, how we think, how we you know, got to where we got, I mean, my wife's like, Well, I'm not gonna take this sitting down, right? Like I'm

We're we're gonna find out what's going on with me, you know, what what the heck happened, you know, which started leading us down a another path, you know, which was doing all kind of vagus nerve manipulation work. And, you know, just seeing how that whole, you know, aspect of care opened up because of that issue that that started. And, you know, and I'm I'm getting clients now that they're coming in and they have these weird

Weird symptoms and you know, no one can explain these symptoms and they're and you're talking to them and you're like, my gosh, like your your vagus nerve system is really compromised. What happened? And well, I had COVID or I had this, you know, and you're you know and all these things and you're just like, wow. And you have this tool now that you never had before, and you would have never gotten that tool if you never had time to explore it and have all this time. So, you know, coming out of those traditional ways of

thinking and out of those traditional models of doing business in in the realm of PT, opened up all these all these just wonderful things. And you know, the the biggest nerve thing opened up. And then we started learning about this autonomic nervous system and, you know, and you know, like one thing led to another and then and now you find out like, you know, this this autonomic nervous system is like this this huge thing that, you know

if you don't treat this in the right way, you're gonna be losing out, you know, and it's I I tell tell my clients, you know, imagine you're sitting in a room and you're reading this wonderful book and your your body is nice and relaxed and you and you know you're you're just kind of you know enjoying yourself and then someone's coming up behind you and you have no idea that they're there and then all of a sudden they just scare you know like in a in a you know split second you're

muscles have a completely different feel to them with being relaxed and going to a startled, tensed up state. You know, if you walked into a you know massage therapist or you know another office and in that state of excitement and said, you know, I'm having back pain. Well look how tight you are. We need to stretch you. And you know, once again, I'm gonna look at this problem through that muscle skeletal lens. And they're trying to

hammer out these these muscle responses and yet what you forgot is the master controller system that sets the tone of the whole muscle system is the nervous system. So if the nervous system is compromised, right? And once again, thank you, COVID, we live in a world where there are just so many stressors in the world affecting us. I mean the how many times your cell phone beeps at you

How many times, you know, you know, my gosh, I got I have to do this, I have to run here. Like I, you know, we talked to our friends that have kids, and you know, it's like, how do you breathe? Like, because you got, you know, I got soccer practice, I got this, I got that, you know, like everything is so spread, so thin, and and you're like, how is that affecting the nervous system? And

The answer is it is affecting it and it's usually causing people to go into a hyper-sympathetic state, which the autonomic nervous system has two systems: parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest, and the sympathetic, which is the fight or flight. I'm running for my life. I'm running from a bear, right? And what's happening is we're slowly, you know, kind of coursing towards these hypersympathetic.

states that we're getting into. Like we're never coming down off of this alert state and it's, you know, it's affecting our bodies. So once again, if I look at it at a muscle skeletal way, I'm gonna miss something very important and that is the nervous system. So, you know, having techniques where you can actually manipulate the nervous system is hugely important in the

And in you know, also in this time that we're here in in Prescott. And I mean, like truly like blessed with, I have time where I can if I want to go to a weak course, I can go to a week course. Why? Because you know, I I I'm my own boss and I can do that and I can and I can do that. You know, I I started getting into dry needling. And why did I get into dry needling? Because once again, my wife was dry needle trained and I got into a situation once.

Where I actually had some really good body work done on me. And you know, I remember waking up in the morning and all of a sudden I was just like, man, like I just don't feel good. And I and I started kind of doing some work on myself and it was just getting worse and worse, you know, as as I kept going. And I'm I'm doing like all this, like, I'm gonna do some neuromanipation on myself. I'm gonna do, you know, I'm gonna check my visceral, like I'm trying to do all this stuff. And I just made it worse.

I mean I'm like literally getting to a point where I can't think straight and I'm like, my gosh, what is wrong with me? Why am I in so much pain right now? And and you know, Lisa's like, What's going on? so I'm telling her and she's like, Well, do you want me to do something? I'm like, I don't care. Yeah, just do something. I'm just, you know, losing it here. And and she's like, Well, let me do some dry kneeling on you. I'm like, I don't care, you you know do and I just remember like within five minutes time, I went from like a eight out of ten pain.

To a zero. Like I was literally asleep on the table, you know, when she was doing the dry kneeling. And and I when it was all said and done, I was just like, dang. And she was like, what? And I'm like, now I gotta learn dry kneeling, because this is amazing, you know, like that you could affect that and get rid of that. And, you know, and as you're as you're learning the dry kneeling technique, you know, and they're and they're just like, we are treating the nervous system, you know.

This is a way and we're treating the peripheral nervous system, we're treating the central nervous system, you know, which once again leads to more, leads to more. And, you know, and we I went in and learned dry needling specifically for the pelvis and the pelvis floor. And, you know, we learned some dry needling techniques specifically for the autonomic nervous system. So now we can actually have these people that are all keyed up with these hypersympathetic states. I can dry needle them and within 25 minutes, they're completely different, you know.

autonomic nervous system state walking out the door, you know, and you you do this technique on people and they're just like, my gosh. Like, I don't think I've ever felt this relaxed in my entire life. And I'm like, yeah, that's that's you know the nervous system. And you know, and if you looked at their muscle tone at that point, it would be wonderful, right? You know, and so yeah, it's Prescott has been such a huge blessing for us in our life, you know, because

Of what was here, you know, because somebody thought outside the box to create a model that produced stellar clinicians or the potential, right? I mean, you can do whatever you want. It's it's it's your business. You can go and you can you can take every course that you've ever wanted to take, or you don't have to. You could just see the world the same way that if you want to. But

We needed that in our lives. We needed these situations. We needed to think outside the box. We needed to get into situations that allowed us the freedom to even, you know, take courses. You know, I mean, I remember when I was going to college, you know, and you know, at the time, like myofascial release was was still like woo-woo almost, you know, you know, like, what are you doing? we're doing myofascial release. What is that? You know, and it

It was so odd, right? You know, like these s weirdos that do this myofascial release. Do you even believe in you know, like we had s you know, you know, conversation. Do you even believe that that myofascial release works or i i is a thing, you know? And, you know, nowadays Medicare pays for myofascial release. You know like these these people that, you know, are the you know, trying to introduce these concepts, you know, like as time has gone on, you know, these concepts are not outlandish anymore. So, you know.

I my wife and I have I mean we're we've been in the practice you know, we've been PTs for twenty-eight years. So the world was quite different, you know, back last millennial when we graduated, you know, and how how you I mean, you didn't even have access to the crazy stuff that we're doing now, like back then and you know, so just but what it was is a journey of of just discovering, you know, just discovering.

new and interesting ways of looking at the body and looking at the system and being somebody who could you know make make a change that nobody else could. You know, I have, yeah, like I I really get excited when I work with a client and they're like, man, I've been to several other, you know, PTs in my life, you know, and it could be local or could be, you know, somewhere else. And they're like, you're nothing like them.

And I'm like, thank you. You know, like that's the biggest compliment you can give me. Because we've worked really hard. We've spent a lot of money, a lot of time to not think and be confined to a musculoskeletal box. you know, and then you know, when my when I see my clients, I'm like, hey, I I will tell you this. I will look at you through a whole bunch of different lenses. You know, I I will try to get to the root cause of why you hurt.

I'll do my best. I have a pretty expansive toolbox. I got a lot of techniques. you know, let me let me open it up and let's let's see where we can we can find something that's gonna work work for you, work for your body.

Trev Warnke (28:29)

Yeah, that's one of the obstacles I have for explaining you to people that I know is being physical therapist because people have a notion of what a physical therapist is. It's pretty much bands, right? Band, rotator cuff kind of like movement-based stuff. And I like the other day I was on a hike talking to a guy who's his wife's having some issues and hasn't got it fixed. And I was like, you need to go see Justin. He's like, Well, you said he's a physical therapist. Like, yes, but it's I so I had to explain more in detail because I'm like.

A physical therapist of what you're thinking, he is not. He but I also don't have a better term for what you are. but I but then I had to walk through some of the practices that you do because I do use you and I'm gonna be seeing you on Tuesday because I also have some back to things I'm gonna go into right now. But in that sense is like that's a hard thing to explain. do you ever run into that obstacle that when you're when you're working with somebody or somebody that's trying to figure out should I use you or not, that you that they just lump you in with the physical therapy idea?

Justin McKinney (29:21)

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, thinking about like what has been the difficulty, it's been hard to convey what you do because yeah, immediately when you see physical therapy, if anybody's had any experience, I mean some people have never had an experience with physical therapists, which is actually kind of good because you know they don't have any preconceived ideas or they don't yeah, I've already tried that. But

Yeah, in people's heads, physical therapist is you go in and you meet the physical therapist, they give you exercises, and then you go into the gym or you work with the assistant or the aide, right? And and you go and do your thing. So when you're meeting people and they're like, Yeah, I have this problem, and you have and you're like, man, yeah. Has anybody looked at that? And you're like, like what are you talking about? You know, so you in a way you kind of get

Really excited when you start talking to people, but you know, you have to find that kind of balance of like how do I explain who I am with not overselling it, right? Because, you know, let's be honest, I don't fix everybody all the time, right? And I'll say that I do, but but boy, I sure have a better ability to look at different systems that might be contributory to you know that person having that pain and discomfort. So

Yeah, it is hard. some of my clients have nicknamed me the Witch Doctor or weird things, right? And when you tell people like I'm gonna put my hand on you and and your body's going to show me where it needs you know to go, you know, like they have to have enough trust in you like that you're not full of it, right? You're gonna do that and that it's gonna actually help them in the end. But I actually think, you know, you know, once again, in Prescott, we're we're we're pretty blessed with

We have a really good community of practitioners in this area. I mean, we we have really, really good. I mean, there's really good natural paths in this area. We have good chiropractors in this area, we got, you know, I buddy of mine who's acupuncturist, you know, we we kinda have a little bit of a community that really supports kind of out of the box thinking a bit. we're not so

in a rut in in Prescott that they're like, my gosh, you're gonna do what? You know? I've I've lived in some communities, you know, mostly in the southeast where, you know, and this it was this is even long before I did the visceral work. I mean, I was just doing kind of traditional osteopathic technique where, you know, someone will come in with shoulder pain and I'm like, I gotta adjust your your rib because your shoulder blade is rubbing over

this rib and the shoulder blade has the socket and the ball and a socket and it doesn't like rubbing over the rib. So it's gonna kind of move over the here. And then as your ball you know interacts with that socket, it's gonna produce pain because all because of that rib was out. Right. And they're like, yeah, I told my doctor what you did. And he said, what does this voodoo? You know and I'm like, voodoo. Like, does your doctor not understand like how the body's set up? Like so, yeah. So I I appreciate that. And I and like I said, I really appreciate Prescott.

in the way of, you know, and and and once again they've had these magnificent clinicians out of Backways, you know, Peter Coppola, Ruth Backway, you know, who started Backways. And, you know, one of the things that they did is they went around to all the the doctors and said, give us all the people that aren't getting better everywhere else. Okay. And if we can get them better, then throw us a bone, like you know

you know, give us a like this this clinic that exists, you know, and was is was created, was forged out of the most complicated people, right? So like I remember when I first came here and, you know, in in twenty thirteen, you know, and you know, up to that point you're you're working with people and, you know, like you give them the traditional like body maps. Where does it hurt? Push put the X on the body, you know, and so you, you know.

Trev Warnke (33:10)

Yeah.

Justin McKinney (33:21)

Get this body map. you're having shoulder pain, right? Remembering some of the body maps I'd get at back weight physical therapy. People were like coloring the whole thing. And I'm just like, what do I do with this? You know, I mean, is there any part of your body that doesn't hurt now? And I've been to like five other people and they haven't been able to help me. So now I'm yours, you know? You're like, what? You know? So you know, like you were a you were up against these.

big things, you know, and you needed better tools, you know. And so, you know, when you talk to people and they're like, you know, what do you do? It's like, well, I'm kind of like a a master body worker that uses like really crazy weird techniques, yeah, where I manipulate your organs and your nervous system, you know, to help get you out of pain and and and get you back to the things that you love. So I mean, because if you sell I'm a physical therapist, like I said,

Then they're kind of, you fit into this box. It's like, well, I've I'm a master practitioner, you know, body worker who uses all these crazy wacky, wackadoodle stuff to, you know, make you walk out of there being like, Wow, I can actually get back to running, or I can get back to mountain biking, or I can get back to doing this or doing that, pinning pickleball. so yeah, it it is very tough to explain that to somebody.

And like I said, without coming across like New York to say, you know, you do all this stuff, but I can do a lot, you know, and you know, I probably can get look at you in a a completely different way than someone else has looked at you. So if you tried PT before, you know. And that's kind of the nice thing too, you know, that that's where we fit into this community.

We don't necessarily need you to stop going to your normal PT that you're seeing. You might, you know, decide to come to us and just augment that. You know, I do stuff that I'll be honest with you, the majority of the things I do, insurances don't pay for. You know, it's out of pocket services anyway. So, like, if you want to go over here and and have your insurance pay for that therapy over there and they're gonna treat you in the muscle skeletal realm, great. You do need exercises, you do need to do that stuff.

Come see me. Let me work on that nervous system. Let me work on that visceral system. Let me do all these other things that these guys aren't gonna do because they can't, because the system wasn't set up for them to do that. The system wasn't set up for them to even look through that lens because they're trying to see you hit productivity marks, you know, that, you know, and then and they're trying to take time off and just spend with their their family when when they take their vacation times. Cause they don't have, you know, six, seven, eight.

weeks, you know, of a year to to spend, you know. so we can compliment a lot of people. We can c you know, I have, you know, chiropractors that refer clients to me and they're like, do that weird stuff you do, you know, mate move their visitor, whatever you want to do, you know, and you know, and and and vice versa. You know, and I'm like, okay, you know, you know, hey, help me out. Like I I only have a certain amount of time with people. Like I'll see you know, you you do this stuff, I'll do my stuff. And and we compliment each other. So it's

It's very complimentary and you know, even how my wife and I work are very complimentary. She she does a lot of of neuro work with clients, you know, like people come in and you know, n and they c they have neuro diseases that are affecting how they move and you know, and she does all these crazy neuro, you know, skills with them and then like all of a sudden they're they're like walking smoothly, they don't lose their balance and you're just like, What the heck is going on? you know, and and it's because she's treating them in a completely different way, right? She's

treating a a whole system and she has a different lens. So, you know, we're very complimentary. I'm like, hey, I'll do my thing. I'll send them over to you and you do your thing. And so, you know, like it's it's it's nice because it's it's not territorial and it's not like back off. Like, you know, that's my client. You know, you're you're a PT, I'm a PT. now we're you know at odds with each other. No, like, you know, you still need to we still need to do all this stuff. And I'm just gonna see them in a completely different

way and it would take you, you know, fifteen, twenty years to know what I know. Like it's okay. Like just do your thing and I'll do my thing and we'll serve this community together. And it's yeah, I kinda like that. I love I love being a team player in the community rather than a turf turf war player, you know, like, that's that's my turf. You don't go over there.

Trev Warnke (37:45)

I do want to point out a couple of the specialty services that you guys do that people probably wouldn't know about. and I want you to like list out kind of the different ones you have, the ones I know of for sure, and then kind of go on from there. But I know you help people with getting adjusted for the right seat height for mountain biking. I think that's a unique thing. you're working on men's pelvic health health, which is a unique thing. Your wife does some stuff with with perimenopausal or the menopausal cycle too.

Just talk about some of the specialty things that you guys do that most people wouldn't know of. Cause I think for the average person, they're probably coming to you because they had something go wrong. It's musculature based, but then there's these other problems that are unsolvable that they don't even realize there are solutions. And I think those specialty things are probably lesser known that you guys do. And think just pointing those out would be worth the the listener kind of understanding those.

Justin McKinney (38:29)

Absolutely. So as you said, you know, my wife got into mountain biking, and of course, with all things, you know, your wife is always helping you to grow and become the amazing person that you are. she started having pain, and I'm like, my gosh, like I want her to be in the sport because I love this sport. I need to, you know, figure this out. which led me into the whole mountain biking fitting aspect. So just learning how to fit a mountain bike so that

It works with the body, not against the body, you know, how to get things set up for for the person. And then it led me into getting actually certified in mountain bike instructing because I wanted to also know like, is it her technique, like how she's using this bike, you know? so as I practice as a clinician, you know, I bring that into my practice. So I love seeing mountain bikers. I love, you know, they might come in with knee pain, neck pain, whatever. and

The visceral, the neuro might all be part of getting them better. But yeah, doing the bike fits. So we definitely offer that. And I do pre-purchase bike fit. So I measure the body in a way that, you know, as we look at what bike are you looking at buying? And and and you know, we look at the geometry charts and and say, okay, if you get this bike, this size frame would probably work much better than this size frame. And

That's really important because the world of mountain biking has changed tremendously. You know, bike from 2015 is radically different than a bike from 2026. The geometry's all changed. So somebody who is riding a large frame in 2015, you know, they might be riding a medium frame in 2026. So helping them to, you know, get the right frame off the bat saves a ton of money because you don't want to spend

eight, nine thousand dollars on a bike and then decide like, sorry, I can't make this thing fit you, you know, no matter what I do, because you actually bought the wrong frame in the first place. So pre-purchase bits, then then we do have the post purchase bits. So if you already have a bike and and you wanna feel better on it, you know, be a little more efficient, be more comfortable, I do that service as well. we do dry needling services. So, you know, if people have, you know,

looked into things and say, hey, I think maybe dry needling might help me. It's amazing. You know, and I do dry needling specifically for pelvic health, in addition to, you know, normal discomfort, pain in the body, and also just health. so you can dry needle the body just to help it actually, you know, do better. So you're normalizing that nervous system once again so that the body has optimal health rather than just getting by health.

about so even after taking all my visceral classes, my neural classes, and using that, and I've always seen you know people with pelvic pain, and and I actually love working with pelvic pain because it's kind of one of the things that I do really, really well. But about last year, I just really felt like God was just leading me to open up into a different aspect of serving my community. And

We we do have another practitioner in our clinic, Andrea, who does pelvic health and mostly women, but she has started to do some men's pelvic health too. but just looking at like what does this community really need? And I really saw a need for men's pelvic health. there's so many. I mean, the the retirement population alone, you know, if you look at prostate cancer.

Compared to breast cancer. So breast cancer, one in three women are gonna be affected. Prostate cancer, it's one in two. So it's fifty percent. So I mean, if you have an aging population and you have, you know, flip a coin if I'm gonna have something wrong with my prostate, where's the services to serve that population? And we were coming up very shy of it in Prescott, you know, and I was just like, okay, you know, I think.

yeah, I think God wants me to kind of start going down into the men's pelvic health, which you know, I you know, I got additional training to, you know, be able to hang the shingle for men's pelvic health. And that's been a a huge, huge blessing for me. I mean, it's just it's a whole it's a whole different way of of interacting with people. I mean, you got I mean guys are pretty a lot of them in the dark.

about things and a lot of them are, you know, maybe a little bit fearful of like, okay, what's this gonna look like? going in. If you look at PT profession in general, it's like, you know, 30, 35% men in the profession. I'm not even talking about pelvic health, I'm talking about the profession, right? So you got a massively female dominated field. And then you whittle it down to pelvic health and if those numbers get even worse.

So men in pelvic health are just like, you don't find them. Like, I went to a class in in California for men's public health. I was the only guy there, you know. We're like doing techniques. So, you know, they're like, okay, we're gonna you know, palpate the prostate and all this other stuff. And I'm looking around and I'm like, How are we gonna do that? Because I'm the only guy that got one. So I mean, you know, like if talk about like

Yeah, stress and pressure there, you know. yeah, I mean, so we offer men's pelvic health from McKinney physical therapy perspective. Backways does have other practitioners. We're actually getting a new practitioner and she also gets into pelvic health. So we're gonna actually have three people at our clinic doing public health, which is I mean, there's no I don't think of any other clinic in town that has three practitioners doing public health at all.

let alone a guy doing men's public health. So yeah, I mean it's been it's been really cool to even offer that service.

Trev Warnke (44:27)

So I would say probably 70% of our followers are men. Can you just dive just a little bit more into like what is men's public health? Like what are you getting, what, what are you what symptoms are you fixing?

Justin McKinney (44:35)

Yeah, so the classic men's pelvic health is you always think of prostate cancer and you know post prostatectomies, right? that's just one aspect of men's pelvic health. And if you know if you have prostate cancer, by all means you need to go before surgery. Before surgery, I'm like it's not happening, it's not happening in your community, but here's the nice thing.

If you're a client and you push your practitioner, your doctor, whatever, and you say, Can you please do this for me? Right, they're gonna do it. Cause number one, no one's got time, right? And and they're just gonna, fine, you know, whatever you want, I'll just write what do you what do you want? You want so you know, where is this change gonna come from? It's actually gonna come from the the customer, the client, right? So absolutely 100%. If if you've been diagnosed with prostate cancer, if

That is your future. Get into men's pelvic health before surgery. six weeks or more would be optimal. studies have shown if if men can get a hold of their pelvic floor and learn the exercises and actually start doing them, the outcome is so much better. So much better. but that's one aspect of men's pelvic health. There's crazy things like

cronies disease, I mean there's erectile dysfunction, ED, constipation, I mean, trouble with post-void dribble, you know, you you urinate and you're having dribbling issues, like pretty much the whole gamut. I mean, I've I found hernias on on guys, you know. so, you know, it's it's about the health of the pelvis. Could be pain.

Could be pain with ejaculation, having sex, you know, anything, you know, there's there's probably something that can be done to help guys out. I have a buddy of mine who, you know, as I was kind of like, hey man, you know, like I I can treat E D. This is pretty crazy stuff. And he was like, well, you know, you know, just like, you know, if you want, you want a

somebody who wants to try it out and you want to practice on I'll I'm willing to, you know, take you up on that service and I'm like, okay, you know, and so I I I went through and I I and I did did the the treatment. And that and it involves dry needling, right? And it involves, you know, showing them, you know, hip stretches and getting in there and doing some visceral manipulation in the pelvis. And and and guys are funny too, right? You know, we're we're we're a strange creature 'cause you know, you're like, hey, how how are things going? yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, doing pretty good, yeah. Okay, all right. Yeah, anything, you know, I needs a change. No I think we're going all right, yeah. And then my wife talked to his wife and she's like, my god. She's like, We're like teenagers. She's like, I can't keep up with him. Okay, there's the difference between a man and a woman, right? You the guy's like, Yeah, good, all set, you know. And so like, did it help? yeah. But you know

talk about guys, they just always downplay everything. But yeah, so it it doesn't have to be scary and one of our big tag lines for men's pelvic health is internal assessments or or you know evaluations are not required. So I can't actually say that I've actually even done one since I've opened up the doors to men's pelvic health because there's just so many things you do you don't even na that you don't even need to do that. even like when you

Do a digital exam of the prostate, you know, and you say, like, how effective is that in you know in finding prostate cancer. I mean, the studies show, I mean, it's maybe 20% effective, you know. So even a digital exam, you know, like the big one is PSA, you know, really look at those values, look at those numbers. so like I said, you know, I I will do things when needed. You know, I've been trained in that. And that was going to that California class where

A whole other cla you know, all my classmates are women and I'm like, This is men's public health. They're all women, you know. So but yeah, so that's that's a service and that's kinda what we can do and how

Trev Warnke (48:36)

So want to say on that one is like it's awesome that you're doing this as a man because men, like you said, are we're we're creatures like we don't really want to say what's going wrong. So already saying not, I don't want to say that something's going wrong in this area. Two, then having a female be the person that's actually doing it. I'm already embarrassed enough, let alone having that conversation. Yeah. So like that's a huge window for like it, it's an area where more men need to move into for sure. Yeah. but just like for your service alone, that's a huge benefit being a guy in there. Cause I could imagine like having those things like.

I'm at the age of forty where some of those things are gonna probably become a little bit more common for me. And I couldn't imagine going to just to my regular doctor and talking about that kind of stuff, right? So I think that's that's just a huge benefit for our community that we have you here and you know, the population of men here, the aging men. I know it's not always just aging men that have those issues, but like aging men that are happening here, it's a huge benefit.

Justin McKinney (49:24)

a crazy statistic. So ED, we're just talking about ED alone, right? If you're in your 40s, there's a 40% chance you have ED issues. And it goes up 10% per decade. So men in their 50s, once again flip the coin that you have ED issues. Men in their 60s, now it's the the you know the coins you know a little against you. It's 60%. So men in their 70s, 70%, you know. So you know these are

These are issues that are affecting men and and and like I said, even with prostate cancer. Fifty-fifty, like that's awful. You know, you hear about breast, you know, you know, cancer and breast awareness much more than you hear about prostate cancer. Like when's the last time you had a a march down, you know, the street for prostate cancer awareness? You know, like it y it just it's not happening for guys, you know. So

Trev Warnke (50:15)

Those guys don't say that when they have it they don't say it.

Justin McKinney (50:17)

Guys need to s guys need to, you know, honestly, you know, this is a little kick in the pants for every guy watching this, but take take responsibility for your health, you know? Talk to somebody. you know, don't don't let things go. You know, the longer you let things go, man, you know, it's just it's it's not good. You know, if there's pain, there's weird things going on, you know, like and sometimes guys come in and they're like, Hey man, you gonna check this out. You know, I'm like, Yeah, like you need to go check that out with the doctor, you know, I mean

So I could be just that that person in, you know, where they just run things by that is, you know, non threatening, you know. Hopefully we keep things light and you know, and but yeah, I just you know, one of my jobs is to educate people, you know, and just help them know that, you know, this is really important. This is your health, you don't wanna you know play with this, you don't wanna wait, you know, wait till things get worse. get get the treatment now, you know, you know. And and think there's really cool stuff out there that really, really helps.

So yeah, so that's another service that we offer. like s like you said, my my wife's doing some really, really cool stuff with neuro integration work and sensory integration stuff where you know she's doing some really, really like, you know, you think you think this role looks like magic and and voodoo, like some of the stuff she does, you know, it's like d do this squat and and then

She has you do something with your eyes or you know your tongue or something, and and then all of a sudden you do a squat better, and you're like, what the heck is going on? You know, it's it's crazy stuff. let's see what else. I mean, out of McKinney physical therapy, we kind of have a branch where my wife does brain integration, which is once again more voodoo magic stuff where you know, people, any you know, ADD, ADHD, anxiety, just trouble concentrating on anything like that, you know, she does a lot of work.

with that. So yeah we just we try to bring to this area services that are you know you just never get anywhere else you know and so it's it's it's it's cool that we have that ability to offer that trying to think of what else that I'm missing out here. So we did the mountain biking. I work a lot with long long distance athletes so like

People that are doing like the Coca-Dona two fifty, you know, the Leadville one hundred, you know, crazy stuff like that. These, you know, ultra athletes. yeah, I love working with these guys. These they're they're awesome. You know, and I'm not the athletic trainer of that person. I'm not telling them like, hey, this is your training schedule, right? But I'm working on that body. And we're getting rid of weird pains that, you know, that would keep them the held back from doing these races and and doing

And then performance. So, you know, anybody who wants to just perform better at their sport, and you know, it could be mountain biking, could be pickleball, could be this, could be that. you know, so we do a lot of wellness. Okay. You don't have to actually have pain to walk through our door. We do a lot of wellness. And I think that's you know, probably one of the things we do best, you know. Like if I have a body and it's already in pain, once again, looking at the nervous system.

That nervous system was already keyed up. Those muscles are already tight. You're already, you know, protecting, right? And we have to kind of break through those barriers and in order to kind of get through the layers and kind of help out. When you come in and you actually don't have any pain, man, the stuff we can get through on those days is unbelievable. You know, it's like you can do five, six, seven systems, you know, and and if you came in and you had pain, maybe get through one or two systems.

Depending on how it how it is, but

Trev Warnke (53:52)

Well, even as like an athlete myself, like the idea of like somebody that's doing performance stuff not having some pain is odd, right? Meaning like it's like if you're the amount of stuff as an athlete that you overcome naturally, because you just think that's part of the process, right? When the back starts hurting or the knees start hurting or the ankle start hurting, something of that nature hurts. And you're just like, well, this is just part of the the training, it's just part of the work. And it's like that's one of the things that I've learned over years of doing

training and then just doing different like from chiropractic work to s working with you and that kind of stuff is like a lot of the pains that I'm dealing with are can be eliminated and they're just things that I'm building up by doing the training. And if I wanna keep doing the training the way I am, I need to get some work done.

Justin McKinney (54:31)

And you know, some people think of pain as a badge of honor. Like I worked out so bad that my back gets killing me for you know a week, you know. Okay, well, you might need to change the way you think about that. But yeah, I'm I I I believe that the body wants to be better, wants to not have pain, wants to be in optimal health, right? And once again, talking about you know

Faith and how that comes into it, you know, like we pray for our clients, we pray for the day, we pray for everything, you know, like one of the things that I get excited about is I don't know everything, but I know somebody who made that thing that I'm working on. And if I allow, you know, his spirit to guide me through treatments, you know, like sometimes you're just working with somebody and you get this thought in your head, like.

Maybe you should try this, right? You know, and you can call it therapist intuition, you could call it whatever. I'm gonna go ahead and call it, you know, God the spirit of God leading me when I work with a client. And, you know, I love that. Like that's that jazzes me up to just be like, I don't have to have all the answers today. I can lean on somebody who's knows his body much better than me, you know, and and I give that person who's coming in a voice, right? Like

You know, tell me what's going on and I listen to them and I yeah.

Trev Warnke (55:52)

People are really good.

Justin McKinney (55:54)

They live in their their bodies and they're like, man, I think I got this thing. And and they might describe it of like, I don't know, like a farmer, you know, like, I, you know, I feel like a grain of straw is stuck in my side, you know. But man, sometimes they're right on. You know, and you just you go there and you're like, hey, you know that thing that you were feeling? It yeah, I this it's this, you know, so I can tell you the anatomical name and what happened and blah, blah, yeah. But like you you just allow

Allow that person to yeah, come in and you just allow allow yourself to be kind of guided into, you know, how to help them. So with the athlete, a lot of times it's just having conversations with them, like, is it okay for you to not have pain? Does that mean you're you did a a a good enough workout, you know? Especially like the CrossFitters, like, you know, these people are like, they live in pain land and and you talk about people, I mean, like statistically speaking.

runners, right? So it's it's proven like marathon runners, long distance runners, their their levels of pain are higher than the normal population. They they do things where they disassociate from their bodies, you know, like why? You know, 'cause like 'cause when they're done running and their their feet are like these bloody stumps, you know, and they you peel them out of their shoes and you're like, what the heck? Like at what point did you not say like I should have probably stopped here? You know, and and they're like, man, I just

You know, got in my place and I was somewhere out there, you know, like dude like so yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's funny just working with bodies and with with people and and how they perceive things and but in general, yeah, I would love everybody to be pain free and and and and do wise decisions and treat their bodies and we're we're constantly pulling people from you know out of their bodies back into their bodies and be like, Hey, I I would I would you know, it helps me.

If you live in your body, 'cause you actually are aware of things happening when you live in there, so please don't disassociate and go over here in in some other space. So that that's one of like Ruth's quotes. We're we're constantly connecting people back into their bodies.

Trev Warnke (58:01)

That's good. So I wanna take a second to go into your faith a little bit because I know that's a big part of you. And like, first of all, like anybody that's worked with the body in terms of training the body, worked around the body, it's hard for you. I couldn't believe how anybody couldn't believe in God or a creator with how our bodies function and how everything's interconnected. And like, you think something randomly could make all this stuff function the way it does? So already knowing that I feel like if you're working with the body, you've got to have some connection with God because it's under once you see it, you're like,

And start working with it and see how things interconnect. I mean, like, there's no way this could randomly happen. But I also want you to dive a little bit into your mission work because you guys have spent time in different parts of the world. And I think that's a cool thing that, like, yes, you're in Press Git now, but like your journey to get here was really cool too. And I don't wanna I think that's important for listeners to understand that like you I think your experiences that you've done over time though has allowed you to be as creative in your in your craft, right? You'd be a technician because if you

Justin McKinney (58:52)

Mm-hmm.

Trev Warnke (58:55)

If you just go work for a hospital and you become the physical therapist there and you're a physical therapist for that same hospital for 30 years, you probably don't really have a desire to improve or need to improve in many ways. But because you've had so many journeys, so many different ways, seeing different things, that you have that desire to like, I want to learn more in that by traveling and doing different things, it's continued to stimulate your brain to be able to do that. I think that's an awesome part of your journey. So I don't want avoid that.

Justin McKinney (59:17)

Yeah, no. one of the reasons why we left this country and started going into different countries was because we felt called into missions and you know, we looked at different organizations. We looked at Peace Corps, we looked at all all kinds of things and so we started going over overseas and and and getting involved in you know once again, you know, you're in countries where you're

You're bringing in like primary medical or dental or you know, you're doing all these you know, eye surgery clinics or you know, you're doing all this really cool stuff and and and the same same crap follows you wherever you go in the world and and you see like the bureaucratic issues and you know, like, you're coming into my country, let's I want to make you pay all these taxes to bring on all this free medical, you know, supplies and everything. So yeah, it's like

in that process of seeing all this and seeing the frustrations, but you also see the hand of God like rise above all that. And you you're going into these villages and and doing these things. Like I said, got sixty people, you know, trying to wait for you to do PT on them. Or, you know, you got you've got eye eye surgeon teams and you know and and you you see God show up in a big way, you know, and like barriers that everybody's trying to throw in and

and and just complicate it and shut things down and and just make the whole thing, you know, you when you see those barriers just get solved and in in and and like these crazy miracles. And you know it it you you start low knowing how to live a life of faith and and start learning to expect God to show up, you know, which I think that's probably probably been a huge

part of how I practice today. Like because of those experiences, I expect God to show up every day. Like when I go to work, I expect amazing things to happen. Why? Because I I I I I left space for God to happen, right? And and it might look like someone comes in and they're like, my gosh, like I I no longer have that pain and I've done all this other stuff. And you're just like, yes, you know, and you just get so excited and you just kind of do a little happy dance for them. And

And sometimes they come in and and they share something very just very hard, you know, and they and they start crying and there's like can I pray for you right now? Like and you know, and and you know a lot of a lot of hospital systems we worked at at Passman. If you if you want a quick, quick way of getting fired, let them find out you prayed for somebody. I mean, like that is like one of the big no-nos and in in the healthcare industry. Like if you

You bring God into that situation, you're in big trouble. So another reason why I love, you know, being my own boss and and working here, because I get to bring God in and I get to pray with clients and I get to, you know, just just utilize that that gift of God showing up in my treatments. And like I said, and some people they have no idea I'm a Christian ever, you know, working on them. And some people they know it very intimately because we've talked and we've talked about God or, you know, have

times where, you know, I prayed for and you know, and that's just a real special thing, right? This somet this something never to be abused, you know, never to take advantage of somebody and their vulnerability. So, you know, as I approached that, I approached it very honorably, you know, like and I always ask them, like, is it okay? You know, is this okay for me to do this? But but yeah, like if I didn't if I didn't have God like, you know, running the show and, you know, and looking back as a

preparing for this interview, just seeing, like I said, that theme, that theme, right? Like no matter what I did, right? There was this theme that, you know, that I was always going to kind of go this route, right? I was always going to be pulled in the direction that I was pulled in and and learn to think the way I've learned to think and learn to see the body the way of why? Well, because there's somebody actually who's kind of

you know, orchestrated that whole journey for me, you know, and I've been a active participant, but it's it's been a really awesome, you know, honoring thing to just look back and and be like, Wow, wow God, you look you took me from this guy that you know, I mean, I remember my first day at work, you know, fresh out of school and you're just like, You like what to do? Something's gonna come in and I'd like to know what to do, you know, I mean like

You take that person and now twenty eight years later and and you look at what I can do and and and how I can help people out and it's if y if you told me back then what I'd be doing and the stuff that I'd be doing, I'd be like, There's no way. I don't I don't even believe that that's possible, right? Like organs? What are you talking about? Like that's that's insane, you know? so yeah, like it's you know

It's held our marriage together, it's held our careers together, it's held everything together. You know, God's at the center of of everything we do. So, and that is our mission field right now, is Prescott, and we want to get back into missions. And my wife is very, very called into international medical missions, and she's brilliant. I mean, she's probably one of the best business organizer, you know, like she could be CEO of any company because she can just think of

things and and ways and she can just, you know, tie tie everything together and just make things happen and just just amazing. So I know eventually, you know, I'll probably be sick taking some time away from working here in Prescott where we go and do medical mission trips, you know, and 'cause I know that's you know absolutely something that really lights her up and

just makes her f you know, absolutely fulfilled and and she loves the internationalness of it, you know, and and and she's worked in the community in different different aspects. but there is that part of us and her that, you know, we definitely will be getting into probably over the next, you know, five years is, you know, looking in into that too. So but

Trev Warnke (1:05:35)

Yeah. I mean that's where I was I usually go with the legacy start part and that's what it sounds like you guys are going for the next stage is like I know you've talked about your you guys you're it just starting your fifties, right? Yep. so your early fifties and so you guys are starting to, you know, plan for retirement and trying to figure out what that looks like after this part, which is awesome to be like that still in my opinion, very young to be able to be able to even consider those thoughts. most people are at sixty-five figuring out how to can I

actually retire retire now and go in that next step to be able to figure out what they can do next. Whereas your early fifties and you're able to start making those decisions. So the future kind of looks for you guys to be like still doing the practicing stuff that you're doing here. Prescott kinda like Prescott will be you know the home base but it's being able to go out and and and do God's work in different countries.

Justin McKinney (1:06:16)

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I I'm doing what I was made to do. You know, I mean that's when when you can go home at the end of the day and know like this is what I was created for, you know, this is the work that you know God had planned for me. Yeah, I mean I'm not gonna stop. You know, so even as as we look at like, okay, you know, what does early retirement look like? You know, I will continue to to practice. And like I said, as we look at it for my wife

She'll probably get a little bit more involved with international medical missions. And like I said, as a support, like I will, you know, do what I can with, you know, making that happen. but you know, she's definitely a l a lot more slanted that that way than I am. I'm a little more homebody in the sense of the worldly travels than than she is. She really, really gets excited about that. so yeah, you know, that's probably in in in the future, you know, doing a a a bit of

some time off where we're going internationally. yeah, that's and and and once again, you know, talking about legacy, you know, I'm part of Ruth's legacy, which when she started back ways and she started this clinic with this model so that clinicians could, you know, rise and and and be all the that they wanted to be. you know, she sold it and now Andrew Stickle owns it and he's continued that legacy of hers

And you know, and and my my time at Backways is I'm I'm continuing to support that legacy, right? 'Cause we that's what we want. That's what we want in Press Gate. We want a place where practitioners are coming and have this beautiful opportunity to have a lot of things sorted already for them so that they can really develop their craft and develop into these amazing practitioners that serve this community and and and d does stuff that no one else can do, you know. I mean it's

It's amazing that we have all this stuff in Prescott, you know, like you don't have to go to Phoenix, you know, you don't have to go to like California, you know, and even California is actually very more restrictive. Like you can't even do dry needling in California as a as a physical therapist. So yeah, I mean, and I and that's why one of the reasons why I love Arizona. I mean, we we have direct access in the state of Arizona for physical therapy. There's some states you don't. You have to get a doctor's prescription before you even go to a PT and then

Everything is, you know, governed by insurance or, you know, the the whole system that's basically flawed, right? And in Arizona, we we have a lot of freedoms. We can do dry dealing, we can have direct access, we can do manipulations. you know, we we have a lot of freedom in the state, and that's it's it's really been a a privilege to live here and live in the state and and operate under those freedoms that that Arizona and Prescott

affords me and you know, I mean having having a business that word of mouth is pretty much the way to go. I mean that's that's crazy, you know? I mean like we don't have big budgets for advertisement, you know, and and we yeah this person tells this person and pretty soon you're you're not seeing this person but you're seeing their wife and their kids. You know, I mean it's just like, you know, that's kinda how things

spread and you know, because people care about, you know, that you're doing a really good job and and and they just spread it around, which is just amazing. So yeah, it's been really, really awesome being in in the Prescott community. And you know, at no no point do am I gonna chime out, you know, I'm still gonna serve Prescott. And you know, and I think looking at that legacy question of like, you know, what what is next? And yeah, we do have to look at that and say, you know,

All these things that I've learned and everything, like how how does that go forward, right? How how does educating the community, how does all that go forward? Is it, you know, videos, is it programs, is it this and that? And you know, and and we have AI coming up, right? And you know, you talk to some people, AI is the devil, some people it's the savior, right? And the truth is AI will will be what it is and it'll be a tool, right? And it'll help things out. And for

the traditional musculoskeletal model AI will probably actually help that. You know, you'll you'll put your symptoms into the algorithm and it'll spit out like, yeah, you should probably do these exercises, right? And it'll probably become a little bit more efficient in the end. But, you know, what is the legacy that we can offer? You know, like we have to explore that and and see like, yeah, how, how is everything that we've learned and and and everything that

You know, we've been practicing how how can we pass that on other than to keep supporting, you know, backways and and and that that model of turning out ex excellent clinicians to serve the area. So, you know, I don't know. That that that's a good question. Needs more reflection.

Trev Warnke (1:11:02)

Yeah, definitely. So if somebody wanted to get some work with you coming from like a non referral based, meaning like not from a a a doctor or something of that nature, it what's the best way? Just go to your website, is it email you? What's the best way to get a hold of you guys?

Justin McKinney (1:11:17)

Yeah, everything's funneled through Backways. So, you know, the phone number nine two eight seven seven seven eight zero five zero, that takes you to backways and McKinney Physical Therapy is at Backways. McKinney Physical Therapy has our own website where you can read up on all the services we offer. the biggest nerve work, the mountain bike, you know, fitting, visceral work, men's pelvic health, all that and that's Prescott PT.

dot com so prescit in physical therapy right but pt dot com so you know they they can look at stuff and like i said we live in a state with direct access so if you're coming in and you know you aren't expecting you know insurance to pay for it you come right in right so you don't need a doctor's referral you just you know call in and get appointment

You know, people that have Medicare, right? They have the entanglements of Medicare, which is basically you have to have a referral, you you can't, you know, and they they're not gonna pay for dry needling services, they're not gonna pay for visceral, they're not gonna pay for vascular work, they're not gonna pay for central nervous system work, right? So and that's part of the reason why I just shy away from a lot of Medicare clientele is because, you know, you're like, I could do a lot with you, but it's not not even covered. So if

You know, you want that, it's gonna be self-pay. And you know, it's so it's a lot easier if people are coming in, not within the the regards of like, hey, is my insurance pay for this? we're kinda like a a niche PT service, right? I mean, we're kinda like a a bit of a boutique thing, you know, we offer things that you're not gonna get anywhere else. So it's really hard for the system, like I said, that's set up that

use life in muscoskeletal terms and promotes efficiency and turning clients out, you know, right? Like that those systems aren't going to serve your best interest. And, you know, so we we we do a lot of just self self pay, clientele. And that takes the handcuffs off me. I do anything I want with them, right? Go anywhere I want and treat whatever I want.

They come in one day, I got a headache. They come in the next day, I I got foot pain. Like it just it doesn't matter. Like we go we we treat the treat the whole body. So it's it's a lot better, so a lot nicer way. And you know, when you know when I see a client, I'm usually like, you know, kind of like about a month or you know, maybe four or five sessions to get through the heavy lifting of the the dysfunction. And at that point.

it's spread out, you know, it's like once every two, once every three, once a month, you know. And I got some clients that I see, you know, once a month, some I see once every three months, you know, and that we just touch base and, you know, like I said, it's kinda like more of a holistic health model rather than you know, fixing people up from, you know, this you know, unbelievable pain that they're in model, you know, and then as soon as they get out of that, then off they go. so

You know, I I I watched the the podcast with Kai and Yahika how he was it's like, Yeah, you know, there's kind of that initial month where we we really see the client and then we kinda start spreading it out and as the body is, you know, holding and you know, we we start spreading it out. And that's kinda well you know, the same same thing, you know. So we're we're very, very similar with our approach to the body as far as like the body should be doing better. It should be able to go longer periods of time without having to

come in and do such heavy lifting work. So usually the first, like I said, usually the first, you know, four or five sessions are highly intensive. And then after that it kind of spreads out and gets, you know, better and better. And then like I said, whatever the person's goals are, some people they just wanna be the healthiest they can and and and do whatever they want and not have any issues pop up later. That's a great client. That's a wonderful client. You know, we can we can have to go do a lot of work on that.

But you know, some people that are like, I only want to get out of this pain, that's it. Okay. All right, you know. We can do that too. But but yeah, we I I I like clients that are are a little bit more invested in in their health and looking at a little bit more long term, like, you know, how what what are some steps that I can do just to stay healthy and and keep all these wonderful results, you know, how how how can we start planning on that? So

Trev Warnke (1:15:41)

Awesome. All right, guys. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Brotherhood Beyond Business Podcast. All the information about Justin's business will be down below in the in the YouTube descriptions. Otherwise on our website as well. You can link off to his stuff. Otherwise, just go to his information at McKinney Physical Therapy, or it was Prescott. Prescott PT dot com. All right, talk to you guys later.

Justin McKinney (1:15:57)

Prescott P T.